From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 56 Date: 2/7/2005 2:57:50 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Mac Trim Servo (Charles Buddy & Cheryl Midkiff) 2. Re: Réf. : Re: KR> Glide ratio (Jeff Scott) 3. RE: VE resin fuel Tanks (gleone) 4. RE: VE resin fuel Tanks (Doug Rupert) 5. Re: stub wing length question (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 6. RE: Fuel Manifold..... (Jack Cooper) 7. For Bubba on wood (Ron Smith) 8. R?f. : KR> For Bubba on wood (Serge VIDAL) 9. Re: Sanding wing fairing (Mike Turner) 10. Re: Knock out punch, Assembler, was Newbie Questions (Bubba) 11. RE: R?f. : Re: KR> Glide ratio (Doug Rupert) 12. Re: VE resin fuel Tanks (Bubba) 13. Re: For Bubba on wood (Bubba) 14. Re: VE resin fuel Tanks (Bubba) 15. Re: R?f. : KR> For Bubba on wood (JAMES FERRIS) 16. main gear position for tri gear (Dene Collett (SA)) 17. doug fir (Don Chisholm) 18. Re: W & B today (Joseph H. Horton) 19. Re: Glide ratio (Orma) 20. Re: Réf. : KR> For Bubba on wood (Ron Smith) 21. Re: Glide ratio (Jeff Scott) 22. Re: R?f. : KR> For Bubba on wood (Bubba) 23. Weather Site, you may want to see this one (Dana Overall) 24. Re: R?f. : KR> For Bubba on wood (Bubba) 25. Re: doug fir (patrusso) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 07:49:55 -0800 From: "Charles Buddy & Cheryl Midkiff" Subject: KR> Mac Trim Servo To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <008501c50d2c$ac6e2970$6401a8c0@charlesmidkiff> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original If anyone is interested there is a Mac 8A Electric Trim Servo by Menzimer on eBay. It's at $25 at the present time. Item # 4525261244 . Bud Midkiff KR2 Lynnwood, WA email: c.midkiff@verizon.net my webpage: http://mysite.verizon.net/res18ums/index.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:58:27 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: Réf. : Re: KR> Glide ratio To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050207.075849.20681.74365@webmail10.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain >From the KRNet Archives: Date: Jul 23, 1998 9:42 PM Subject: Re: KR: Dead stick characteristics of Kr2s This evening was calm and smooth enough that I went out and did some glide testing. I came up with an average of 2.1 miles for 1000 feet. That works out to aroung 11:1 glide ratio. I did this with the engine throttled back to idle and already set up to glide at 80 mph IAS. As I decended through 9200 feet I would take a mileage reading on the GPS, then take another reading as I sank through 8200 feet. I did two runs in opposite directions. ------ Back to 2005... I haven't tested glide again, but have reduced the airframe drag significantly since then, so would expect better numbers now. -Jeff -------- -- "Kenneth B. Jones" wrote: Yes, about 15:1 and Larry's works out to about 11.5:1. My plane is lighter with longer wings. Makes sense to me. Ken ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 09:13:54 -0700 (Mountain Standard Time) From: "gleone" Subject: RE: KR> VE resin fuel Tanks To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <420793C2.000005.01700@YOUR-FD6NVJCER4> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Doug, This sounds like a great idea. Thanks for sharing it as I'm going to be starting on my tanks here shortly. Quick question: Are you roughing the surface before applying the gelcoat or applying it directly and how many coats? Gene Leone, Worland, Wyoming "Michael Moore is living proof to never trust anyone who is bigger around than tall!" -------Original Message------- From: Doug Rupert Date: 02/06/05 22:08:38 To: 'KRnet' Subject: RE: KR> VE resin fuel Tanks I was reading up on VE as that is what I'm using for my tanks and the resin supplier was quick to point out that all composite fuel tanks should be coated on the inside with Gelcoat, the same as the marine industry has been doing for years. Gives a smooth surface that contaminants can't stick to as well as being totally fuel proof and improving resistance to vibration cracking. Doug Rupert Simcoe Ontario -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 2/3/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:49:34 -0500 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: KR> VE resin fuel Tanks To: "'gleone'" , "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <006101c50d35$16a88da0$6504e440@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Gene; One coat brushed directly to inner surface. As long as the VE has not had wax added or Air Dry no sanding needed. I have been watching the PVA thread and wondered why go to all the trouble when resin/material suppliers all carry Air Dry which is especially made to eliminate the tackiness problem and is used for the final lay-up for a smooth slick surface that is tack free. It just mixes with the resin after the hardener has been added according to the manufactures proportions and works like a charm and doesn't clog the sandpaper if later modifications or repairs are required. Doug -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 2/3/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 12:17:04 -0500 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> stub wing length question To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050207.121937.3008.1.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Feel comfortable after your engineering shows that it is possible and keep the standards of the K R intact, Virg On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 04:54:57 EST Bdazzcamro@aol.com writes: > HI Netters, > > I am wondering if it is possible to make the spars longer > to create > bigger fuel tanks and maybe shorten the out spars a bit. Maybe > talking 6" or > so on either side. If anyone has heard of anyone doing this or > thinking of > doing this let me know the outcome. I really dont feel comfortable > with > 10gallons sitting in front of my face. Any advise will help. > thanks > > David Swanson > _Bdazzcamro@aol.com_ (mailto:Bdazzcamro@aol.com) > soon too be builder > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 13:26:16 -0500 From: "Jack Cooper" Subject: RE: KR> Fuel Manifold..... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <410-22005217182616171@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII David I ask William about the fuel and oil manifolds and he made them, but if you look on page 112 of AC spruce cat. they have some aluminum manifolds which could be used for fuel or oil manifolds. Jack Cooper > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 2/7/2005 4:59:13 AM > Subject: KR> Fuel Manifold..... > > Hi Netters, > > I had ordered Williams engine series videos and he talks about a fuel > manifold.... does anyone know where I can buy one? I looked through Aircraft > Spruce several times and didn't find it in there. Let me Know. > > > David Swanson > _Bdazzcamro@aol.com_ (mailto:Bdazzcamro@aol.com) > soon to be builder > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:05:39 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Smith Subject: KR> For Bubba on wood To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050207190539.64877.qmail@web81706.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii When there has never been a structural failure with a KR using spruce, why would you add ten pounds to the structure? Build as light as you can. Ounces can kill you in the end, why add pounds? My humble opinion of course. Ron Smith KR2S boast stage. ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 20:13:42 +0100 From: "Serge VIDAL" Subject: R?f. : KR> For Bubba on wood To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" To save a helluva lot of money! Would that be an acceptable reason? (by the way, I believe mine is made of Oregon, but that's another story). Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France Ron Smith Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net 2005-02-07 20:05 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-02-07 20:06 Pour : krnet@mylist.net cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : KR> For Bubba on wood When there has never been a structural failure with a KR using spruce, why would you add ten pounds to the structure? Build as light as you can. Ounces can kill you in the end, why add pounds? My humble opinion of course. Ron Smith KR2S boast stage. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 13:26:29 -0600 From: "Mike Turner" Subject: Re: KR> Sanding wing fairing To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Brian I would try one of those traffic cones. just glue some sandpaper around it and test it on a sample piece of foam Mike Turner Jackson, Mo. ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Kraut To: KRnet Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:27 PM Subject: KR> Sanding wing fairing I need to sand a wing root fairing foam block with about a 3" radius for most of the length, then go to about a 12" radius aft of the wing (this will be a Hughes Racer looking fairing). The front half before the radius changes will be easy enough to do with a coffee can or something, but I don't know any good way to do the changing radius on the aft side. Anyone have any suggestions or do I just have to eyeball it and maybe use some cardboard templates? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:12:40 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR>Knock out punch, Assembler, was Newbie Questions To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006101c50d51$61936990$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Dana Overall wrote: > > Steve, after building a KR-2 it is somewhat different. I still > remember Langford's face when I clecoed together an entire flap in > something like 2.5 minutes:-) I was going to build an RV-4, until I remembered I suck at sheet metal. If it's a flat piece I can generally get by, but if there's a bend all bets are off. That's why I decided to build a KR instead. I have no idea how I'd get these huge hands of mine into various parts to buck the rivets. > And Jack, I have looked for land with a large enough flat spot for a > runway but in KY that is a rare find!! A few weeks ago I watched a couple of guys, one in an RV-4, the other in a -6, take off into a fairly good bit of wind (15 gusting to 20 if I remember right). I think their takeoff rolls were measured in inches ;) I was in the right seat of a Navion and it took a bit more room. -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:04:37 -0500 From: "Doug Rupert" Subject: RE: R?f. : Re: KR> Glide ratio To: "'gleone'" , "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <006c01c50d50$41c7e010$6504e440@office> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Gene: When looking at glide ratios I always look to an old Army aircraft I used to fly as a model. Anything better than the Grumman OV1 Mohawk and you're good to go. Jack Cooper may or may not have had the pleasure of flying these monsters as we retired most of the fleet after Vietnam. One engine out resulted in a controlled crash, both fail then standard operating procedure was push stick full forward, place head between legs and kiss your arse goodbye, then eject if you had the altitude. Flying brick. I'm in no way making light of the subject but when I see numbers like 10:1 and above I immediately think this thing is a glider. Doug Rupert -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.5 - Release Date: 2/3/2005 ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:21:11 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> VE resin fuel Tanks To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <009501c50d52$9219a240$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Doug Rupert wrote: > > I have been > watching the PVA thread and wondered why go to all the trouble when > resin/material suppliers all carry Air Dry which is especially made > to eliminate the tackiness problem and is used for the final lay-up > for a smooth slick surface that is tack free. I just don't like the idea of additives in resin after an incident involving thinning resin. Part looked fine but crumbled when it came out of the mold. No fun. I'm sure this stuff you're talking about wouldn't do the same thing, but I'm still a bit gun shy. -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:32:29 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> For Bubba on wood To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00a401c50d54$27a29eb0$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ron Smith wrote: > When there has never been a structural failure with a KR using > spruce, why would you add ten pounds to the structure? Build as light > as you can. Ounces can kill you in the end, why add pounds? > > My humble opinion of course. I'm going to Reno and have to demonstrate a 5g pullup. I'm putting an engine with twice the power the plans call for in the thing and it's going to be way, way faster than originally intended. But then I'm also putting less seats in it than designed, so I'd most likely be fine without the extra strength. But fir is substantially cheaper and easier to find than spruce, too :) -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:35:19 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> VE resin fuel Tanks To: "gleone" , "KRnet" Message-ID: <00ab01c50d54$8b5c67b0$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original gleone wrote: > Doug, > This sounds like a great idea. Thanks for sharing it as I'm going to > be starting on my tanks here shortly. Quick question: Are you > roughing the surface before applying the gelcoat or applying it > directly and how many coats? Normally you spray or brush a coat of gelcoat into the mold before adding any glass, but when there's no mold it's best to brush it on when the resin is green. I'd use red gelcoat. Easier to see spots you might have missed. -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 15:34:42 -0500 From: JAMES FERRIS Subject: Re: R?f. : KR> For Bubba on wood To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050207.153443.2228.0.mijnil@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Thats a damm good reason. Jim On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 20:13:42 +0100 "Serge VIDAL" writes: > To save a helluva lot of money! Would that be an acceptable reason? > > (by the way, I believe mine is made of Oregon, but that's another > story). > > Serge Vidal > KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" > Paris, France > > > > > Ron Smith > > Envoyé par : krnet-bounces@mylist.net > 2005-02-07 20:05 > Veuillez répondre à KRnet > Remis le : 2005-02-07 20:06 > > > Pour : krnet@mylist.net > cc : (ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) > Objet : KR> For Bubba on wood > > > > When there has never been a structural failure with a KR using > spruce, why > would you add ten pounds to the structure? Build as light as you > can. > Ounces can kill you in the end, why add pounds? > > My humble opinion of course. > > Ron Smith > KR2S boast stage. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 23:10:01 +0200 From: "Dene Collett \(SA\)" Subject: KR> main gear position for tri gear To: "krnet" Message-ID: <000301c50d59$86a2e500$37e5fea9@telkomsa127179> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Guys I am busy building the main gear legs for my tri gear and was just wondering where the other guys with tri gear configs have positioned their wheels with regard to the rear face of the main spar. I am able to get the centre of the wheel about 215mm from the rear face of the spar. I would be interested if all those with tri gear configs and have the info available would send it to me privately. I was looking at John Shaffer's plane and it would seem that his wheels are a bit closer than this. Is there not a standard percentage weight that the mains should handle or is it ok as long as the wheels are behind the rear CG limit. Thanks. Dene Collett KR2S-RT builder Port Elizabeth South Africa mailto: dene.collett@telkomsa.net P.S: checkout www.whisperaircraft.com ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:14:11 -0500 (EST) From: Don Chisholm Subject: KR> doug fir To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050207211411.36125.qmail@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii spar quality sitka spruce is 28 lbs. per cu. ft doug fir is 31 lbs. per cu. ft. and is resultantly that much stronger if weight reduction is your consideration reduce the dimensions by 28 over 31 without sacrificing any structural integrity by laminating pieces together you can make it hell bent for strong without adding any weight Don Chisholm. ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:14:44 -0500 From: "Joseph H. Horton" Subject: Re: KR> W & B today To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050207.161444.3492.0.joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Guys First I want to mention that I hate sanding. This weekend Among a host of other things I did a weigh inn of my 2s also. I used bathroom scales too and do not trust them but I wanted to know about where I stand. I was a little surprised but I got nearly the same reading on all three wheels: 239# on the right 239# on the left 240# on the nose total 718# this also included about 7 gal of fuel in the header tank. I'm pretty confident now that I can get in at about 725# empty weight. All I have left to install is paint, ELT, and main wheel pants. This weekend everything gets primed and all removable parts go to the paint shop with my truck to get painted next week. I think that I'm still on schedule to have sign off this month. BTW-- Did I say that I hate sanding Joe Horton joe.kr2s.builder@juno.com ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:30:26 -0500 From: "Orma" Subject: Re: KR> Glide ratio To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <01aa01c50d5c$3e6b7830$0202a8c0@ROBBINS1> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hello Net I have read the responses on glide ratio and see that no one has made the real test with the engine off. Any number that you get with the engine a idle is an over estimate. How much of an over estimate depends on the thrust the engine and prop combo put out at your particular idle speed. My KR on it's first flight had the Idle too high and would not stop flying and continued to float down a 10,000 foot runway until I cut the engine off. I'm saying this yet, I don't recommend power off testing. Knowing how the aircraft controls at minimum controllable airspeed is probably the most useful information you can have besides knowing and having a feel for how and when your KR will stall. If I feel that my engine is not reliable, I head to the nearest airport. Along the way I continually look for a safe place to land. I have never considered the question "If my engine quit how far could I go?" Better to pick a spot to land then to try and fail to make it that last mile. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 13:42:05 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Smith Subject: Re: Réf. : KR> For Bubba on wood To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050207214205.39779.qmail@web81701.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Serge VIDAL wrote: To save a helluva lot of money! Would that be an acceptable reason? (by the way, I believe mine is made of Oregon, but that's another story). Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France Ron: Let's see wood kit is 700 bucks. Say you save 300 bucks. Is three hundred bucks worth carrying around that extra 10 lbs for the life of the aircraft? I don't think so. My humble opinion again. ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 22:01:21 GMT From: "Jeff Scott" Subject: Re: KR> Glide ratio To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050207.140207.11093.82553@webmail22.lax.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain Ref: http://142.26.194.131/aerodynamics1/Multi/Page2.html A windmilling prop at low idle will actually produce more drag than a stopped prop. However, with the engine turning at a high idle, it will help carry you a long ways. I nursed a Stinson Voyager 8 miles at night from 1700'AGL with best power variable from 1400 - 1700 RPM as the remains of the engine beat itself to pieces. That's just above a high idle, but significantly lengthened the glide to safely make it to a runway. However, your point is well made that a little bit of power makes a huge difference in glide. -Jeff -- "Orma" wrote: Hello Net I have read the responses on glide ratio and see that no one has made the real test with the engine off. Any number that you get with the engine a idle is an over estimate. How much of an over estimate depends on the thrust the engine and prop combo put out at your particular idle speed. My KR on it's first flight had the Idle too high and would not stop flying and continued to float down a 10,000 foot runway until I cut the engine off. I'm saying this yet, I don't recommend power off testing. Knowing how the aircraft controls at minimum controllable airspeed is probably the most useful information you can have besides knowing and having a feel for how and when your KR will stall. If I feel that my engine is not reliable, I head to the nearest airport. Along the way I continually look for a safe place to land. I have never considered the question "If my engine quit how far could I go?" Better to pick a spot to land then to try and fail to make it that last mile. Orma Southfield, MI N110LR Tweety, old enough to drink this year Flying and more flying, to the gathering or bust http://www.kr-2.aviation-mechanics.com/ _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 16:47:17 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: R?f. : KR> For Bubba on wood To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <013901c50d66$fb41dcb0$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ron Smith wrote: > > Let's see wood kit is 700 bucks. Say you save 300 bucks. Is three > hundred bucks worth carrying around that extra 10 lbs for the life of > the aircraft? > > I don't think so. My humble opinion again. Look at it a different way: Is that 10 pounds worth being 10% stronger? I know the structure shown on the plans is strong enough for a plane flown at 175 mph with a 65 horsepower engine, but what about that same structure flown at 220 mph with a 140 horsepower engine? While I'm thinking about weight, does anyone know how much the plywood skins on the fuselage weigh? Very roughly calculating it the foam/glass I'm using instead weighs 12 pounds for both sides and the floor. I found one reference that said birch plywood is about 56 PCF but I don't know how much I trust that number. Originally I thought that the foam/glass might weigh a bit more, but it's starting to look like it'll weigh less, possibly a LOT less, and I have no doubts that it's substantially stronger. I'll be building a couple of test panels to destroy before I start building, but I'm confident that it'll work best for me. -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 17:46:54 -0500 From: "Dana Overall" Subject: KR> Weather Site, you may want to see this one To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Aother metal head put this site together. You can get an unbeleivable amount of weather here Go http://www.rvproject.com/wx You can even go the the top and click NWE ( I think that is it) and it gives you your local forcast for the fun of it. Dana Overall 1999 & 2000 National KR Gathering host Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" Finish kit 13B Rotary. Hangar flying my Dynon. http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero1.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/aero3.jpg http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg do not archive ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:08:39 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: R?f. : KR> For Bubba on wood To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <014001c50d69$f7449000$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ron Smith wrote: > Let's see wood kit is 700 bucks. Say you save 300 bucks. Is three > hundred bucks worth carrying around that extra 10 lbs for the life of > the aircraft? > > I don't think so. My humble opinion again. This is interesting. The boat, not counting skin, firewall, etc., is about 1500 inches of 5/8" sticks. That's .5425 cubic feet. Spruce would weigh about 15.2 pounds, fir about 16.8 pounds. Mine, with foam/glass skin and a fir skeleton should be around 32 pounds. That's actually lighter than an ultralight I designed a couple of years ago (37.4 pounds, based solely on computer models, I never built it). Now if I can make that P51 tail work I'll be happy ;) -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:57:18 -0500 From: "patrusso" Subject: Re: KR> doug fir To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <001601c50d68$607223a0$1ca672d8@patrusso> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Don, I am not sure that specific gravity or weight of a given piece of timber can lead to conclusions about the shear or tensile strength so easily. I do agree that laminated pieces are superior in stength. I also believe that fir will serve as well as spruce. Indeed I have made many tests comparing sitca spruce to fir, redwood and mahogany and feel that...safety wise a KR could be built with any of the above. Indeed, I have just finished building an Horizon 2 for a non woodworking friend. The kit was all pine. Yes pine. 3/4 square stock for the fuselage with 3/32 plywood covering on the sides and fabric top and bottom. It is amazing what you can get away with. One must just be imaginative, and bold and willing to do a few simple testing. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Chisholm" To: Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 4:14 PM Subject: KR> doug fir > spar quality sitka spruce is 28 lbs. > per cu. ft > doug fir is 31 lbs. per cu. ft. and is > resultantly that much stronger > if weight reduction is your consideration > reduce the dimensions by 28 over 31 > without sacrificing any structural integrity > by laminating pieces together you can make > it hell bent for strong without adding any weight > Don Chisholm. > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 56 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================