From: krnet-bounces+johnbou=speakeasy.net@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 61 Date: 2/8/2005 8:49:07 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Call me crazy (Ron Smith) 2. (no subject) (Dennis Mingear) 3. WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS (Dennis Mingear) 4. removing the wings (Oscar Zuniga) 5. Re: removing the wings (Dennis Mingear) 6. Re: removing the wings (Mark Jones) 7. removing the wings (Oscar Zuniga) 8. RE: Call me crazy (Brian Kraut) 9. RE: WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS (Brian Kraut) 10. Re: removing the wings (Dennis Mingear) 11. RE: WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS (Dennis Mingear) 12. Re: carbon fiber gear legs (Mark Langford) 13. RE: WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS (Brian Kraut) 14. Re: Spar questions (Bubba) 15. Re: All the metal bits (Bubba) 16. Spar questions (Oscar Zuniga) 17. Re: Spar questions (Bubba) 18. Re: Bubba (Mark Jones) 19. Re: Re: Bubba (Bubba) 20. Re: Spar questions (Dennis Mingear) 21. RE: WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS (Dennis Mingear) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 18:24:31 -0800 (PST) From: Ron Smith Subject: KR> Call me crazy To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050209022431.74927.qmail@web81708.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I was thinking of making my own main gear out of carbon graphite. 20-30 layers of 282, 4 inches wide, laid over a form to match the shape of Groves gear. I know that carbon graphite can be brittle. I think it could build it strong enough but would it be springy enough? I saw that someone made a tail spring in this manner and it got me thinking. I just may make one and see how strong it is. I estimated the cost to be less than 100 dollars. Any thoughts? Ron Smith, Kr2s boat stage ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 18:28:04 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: KR> (no subject) To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050209022804.42490.qmail@web51404.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I've searched the archives and was unable to find an answer to my question. My question being; How easy, or hard, is it to install and remove the outer wing panels? How much time and trouble would this be on a plans built KR. The ancient info pack that I have suggests that it takes 20 minutes more or less to do. My problem is that hangars are few and far between where I fly and I was wondering if the wing installation/removal process was simple enough to allow me to trailer a KR to and from the airport. I can park a covered trailer at the airport along with the gliders but hangars are another story. Thanks in advance ... Denny "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 18:29:24 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050209022925.4207.qmail@web51403.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Oooops, I forgot to add a subject line. Dennis Mingear wrote:I've searched the archives and was unable to find an answer to my question. My question being; How easy, or hard, is it to install and remove the outer wing panels? How much time and trouble would this be on a plans built KR. The ancient info pack that I have suggests that it takes 20 minutes more or less to do. My problem is that hangars are few and far between where I fly and I was wondering if the wing installation/removal process was simple enough to allow me to trailer a KR to and from the airport. I can park a covered trailer at the airport along with the gliders but hangars are another story. Thanks in advance ... Denny "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:35:13 -0600 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> removing the wings To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Dennis; It has been discussed (removing and reinstalling the wings) many times. Probably if you search on something like "wing gap" or "WAF bolts" you'll hit something. The concensus is that the wings were only made removable for two reasons: (1) ease of construction in smaller sections and in more confined shops, and (2) removal of a wing panel for repair of damage. They are not intended to be removed frequently, and in fact the fit of the bolts in the holes should be quite tight so as to make it more than just a matter of 20 minutes to remove or reinstall them properly. Some builders glass over the wing gap after final assembly of their airplanes for this very reason. Most use aluminum or fiberglass strips to cover the gaps, figuring to leave the WAF connections accessible for inspection and/or the possibility of wing removal in the event of an off-airport landing requiring trailering. There have been one or two folding wing schemes hatched, as well as one or two quick-connect schemes, but I don't know of many (any?) that have been successful to the point of the design being publicized or copied. Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 18:40:17 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> removing the wings To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050209024017.6859.qmail@web51403.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks for the info Oscar. That would mean that I need a hangar for the plane. I don't think that leaving it outside in the winter would be a good idea. Even a car type cover wouldn't give me the required weather protection. Denny ... Oscar Zuniga wrote: Dennis; It has been discussed (removing and reinstalling the wings) many times. Probably if you search on something like "wing gap" or "WAF bolts" you'll hit something. "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:43:15 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: Re: KR> removing the wings To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002001c50e51$2085b2e0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Check out this link to a British built plane by Ken Atkinson. Truly a remarkable wing removable system. http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/katkinson/ Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:35 PM Subject: KR> removing the wings > Dennis; > > It has been discussed (removing and reinstalling the wings) many > times. Probably if you search on something like "wing gap" or "WAF > bolts" you'll hit something. > > The concensus is that the wings were only made removable for two > reasons: > (1) ease of construction in smaller sections and in more confined shops, and > (2) removal of a wing panel for repair of damage. They are not > intended to > be removed frequently, and in fact the fit of the bolts in the holes should > be quite tight so as to make it more than just a matter of 20 minutes > to remove or reinstall them properly. > > Some builders glass over the wing gap after final assembly of their > airplanes for this very reason. Most use aluminum or fiberglass > strips to cover the gaps, figuring to leave the WAF connections > accessible for inspection and/or the possibility of wing removal in > the event of an off-airport landing requiring trailering. There have > been one or two folding wing schemes hatched, as well as one or two > quick-connect schemes, but I don't know of many (any?) that have been > successful to the point of the design being publicized or copied. > > Oscar Zuniga > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 20:47:51 -0600 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> removing the wings To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >Check out this link to a British built plane by Ken Atkinson. Truly a >remarkable wing removable system. Okay, okay. That's a good one. But that's the exception... not the rule. We Yanks aren't the sharpest pencils in the drawer, so it takes a Brit (or a German) to come up with a piece of class like that. Our approach generally involves applying more horsepower than finesse ;o) Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:49:29 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> Call me crazy To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" You would really want to make it out of unidirectional carbon fiber, not regular cloth. With 282 you will wind up with half of the fibers just taking up space and weight and not contributing to the strength. I would use some layers of regular cloth intermixed with a bunch more layers of the unidirectional to give the legs some resistance to splitting. This is the same reason that Dan Diehl says to wrap a few layers of glass around his legs. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Ron Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:25 PM To: krnet@mylist.net Subject: KR> Call me crazy I was thinking of making my own main gear out of carbon graphite. 20-30 layers of 282, 4 inches wide, laid over a form to match the shape of Groves gear. I know that carbon graphite can be brittle. I think it could build it strong enough but would it be springy enough? I saw that someone made a tail spring in this manner and it got me thinking. I just may make one and see how strong it is. I estimated the cost to be less than 100 dollars. Any thoughts? Ron Smith, Kr2s boat stage _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:49:31 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I installed and removed wings about three times. It took me about an hour or two to remove the wings and about three to four hours to install them. Your results will vary depending on how much access you leave yourself to work on getting the bolts in and out, how much practice you have, and if you can come up with some kind of good holding jig to position the wings while you get the bolts in and out. Obviously, nav lights, fuel lines, etc. slow things down. I have heard of a bunch of people planning on keeping their planes on a trailer, but don't know of anyone that actually does it. It is a real pain and I would worry about the repeated wear on the wing attach fittings eventually ovaling the holes. This is not to say that you can not come up with an easier way or that perhaps someone else already has. I made a custom canvas cover for my KR and kept it tied down at the airport. Save me over $300 a month not needing a hangar. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dennis Mingear Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:29 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS Oooops, I forgot to add a subject line. Dennis Mingear wrote:I've searched the archives and was unable to find an answer to my question. My question being; How easy, or hard, is it to install and remove the outer wing panels? How much time and trouble would this be on a plans built KR. The ancient info pack that I have suggests that it takes 20 minutes more or less to do. My problem is that hangars are few and far between where I fly and I was wondering if the wing installation/removal process was simple enough to allow me to trailer a KR to and from the airport. I can park a covered trailer at the airport along with the gliders but hangars are another story. Thanks in advance ... Denny "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 18:53:41 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> removing the wings To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050209025341.56946.qmail@web51409.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks Mark! I knew that I had seen these pictures somewhere before. Thanks for the memory wake up call. He is also using the KR-1b wing flaps for approach control. I need to study the pictures closely, but I'm assuming that the builder is using anti-crush spacers of some sort between the attach fittings on the outer wing panels. Thanks ... Denny Mark Jones wrote: Check out this link to a British built plane by Ken Atkinson. Truly a remarkable wing removable system. http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/katkinson/ Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 18:56:59 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: RE: KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050209025659.46684.qmail@web51406.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Brian, I'm interested in your canvas covers. We get alot of rain in the winter here in Northern Ca. Do you think that the custom covers keep your plane dry enough to keep the wood and metal parts safe? Denny ... Brian Kraut wrote: I installed and removed wings about three times. It took me about an hour or two to remove the wings and about three to four hours to install them. Your results will vary depending on how much access you leave yourself to work on getting the bolts in and out, how much practice you have, and if you can come up with some kind of good holding jig to position the wings while you get the bolts in and out. Obviously, nav lights, fuel lines, etc. slow things down. I have heard of a bunch of people planning on keeping their planes on a trailer, but don't know of anyone that actually does it. It is a real pain and I would worry about the repeated wear on the wing attach fittings eventually ovaling the holes. This is not to say that you can not come up with an easier way or that perhaps someone else already has. I made a custom canvas cover for my KR and kept it tied down at the airport. Save me over $300 a month not needing a hangar. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dennis Mingear Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:29 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS Oooops, I forgot to add a subject line. Dennis Mingear wrote:I've searched the archives and was unable to find an answer to my question. My question being; How easy, or hard, is it to install and remove the outer wing panels? How much time and trouble would this be on a plans built KR. The ancient info pack that I have suggests that it takes 20 minutes more or less to do. My problem is that hangars are few and far between where I fly and I was wondering if the wing installation/removal process was simple enough to allow me to trailer a KR to and from the airport. I can park a covered trailer at the airport along with the gliders but hangars are another story. Thanks in advance ... Denny "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:02:28 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR>carbon fiber gear legs To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <00a801c50e53$ca781930$1202a8c0@1700xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > I know that carbon graphite can be brittle. I think it could build it strong enough but would it be springy enough? Carbon fiber is known for it's stiffness, but what you want in a gear leg is just the opposite. I don't know of anybody that's using a carbon fiber gear leg, and that alone is good enough for me. Fiberglass works great, as as has been demonstrated by the canard guys and most KRs as well. It's also cheaper. I'd stick with fiberglass or aluminum, personally. > I saw that someone made a tail spring in this manner and it got me thinking. That tail spring is Jim Faughn's. Actually, the core is fiberglass (maybe a golf flag pole?) and broke at the Gathering. I was the only guy that had any kind of composite, and it happened to be carbon fiber. I think we wrapped about four layers of 5.85 ounce CF around it We thought it was a temporary fix, but it's still working today... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see KR2S project N56ML at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net -------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:05:10 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" They can definitely keep the plane safe and dry. I have a picture at www.engalt.com/kr2.htm. It is the second picture on the home page. The wings and tail surfaces are basically socks that slide over. Everything has either straps with buckles or velcro. There is a canopy cover that straps on and then the fusalage cover that has a cutout around the canopy. I did this so I could take the canopy cover with me and leave the rest at home. The canvas was Sunbrella brand. I chose it for UV resistance. I had about $700 in materials in the cover and it took me about a week to make it with no previous sewing or canvas experience. The front of the fusalage cover is not quite done yet in the picture. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dennis Mingear Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:57 PM To: KRnet Subject: RE: KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS Brian, I'm interested in your canvas covers. We get alot of rain in the winter here in Northern Ca. Do you think that the custom covers keep your plane dry enough to keep the wood and metal parts safe? Denny ... Brian Kraut wrote: I installed and removed wings about three times. It took me about an hour or two to remove the wings and about three to four hours to install them. Your results will vary depending on how much access you leave yourself to work on getting the bolts in and out, how much practice you have, and if you can come up with some kind of good holding jig to position the wings while you get the bolts in and out. Obviously, nav lights, fuel lines, etc. slow things down. I have heard of a bunch of people planning on keeping their planes on a trailer, but don't know of anyone that actually does it. It is a real pain and I would worry about the repeated wear on the wing attach fittings eventually ovaling the holes. This is not to say that you can not come up with an easier way or that perhaps someone else already has. I made a custom canvas cover for my KR and kept it tied down at the airport. Save me over $300 a month not needing a hangar. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Dennis Mingear Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:29 PM To: KRnet Subject: KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS Oooops, I forgot to add a subject line. Dennis Mingear wrote:I've searched the archives and was unable to find an answer to my question. My question being; How easy, or hard, is it to install and remove the outer wing panels? How much time and trouble would this be on a plans built KR. The ancient info pack that I have suggests that it takes 20 minutes more or less to do. My problem is that hangars are few and far between where I fly and I was wondering if the wing installation/removal process was simple enough to allow me to trailer a KR to and from the airport. I can park a covered trailer at the airport along with the gliders but hangars are another story. Thanks in advance ... Denny "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:23:17 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> Spar questions To: , "KRnet" Message-ID: <069601c50e56$b4815bc0$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original B. Ferguson wrote: > Hello, > > With this discussion on spar strength I was curious to know if any of > the techniques discussed, along with the extra thickness of the 5048 > airfoil, would add enough strength to the center section to allow for > fitting of the 1-B wings? Adding a large amount to the span would no > doubtedly lower the g rating, but would it not be feasable to build a > 2-B using a laminated center section to beef up the structure for the > needed support? The outer parts of the wings have suprisingly little load on them. At the tips it's nearly zero. So The long wings built with long 2S spars should be fine. That's just my opinion though, I haven't seen the changes to the 1B wings. > Steve and I have a lot in common, we're both in Houston headed for > Reno. He wants to race and I'd like to catch some of that Minden wave. I'm planning on flying out there this year, KR or not (most likely some misc. spam can), if you feel like going the long way. One of these days I'm going out to Waller, too. It's unbelievably cheap to rent a club sailplane. Like $9/hr plus tows and dues. > Been lurking here for most of 2003 and have found the discussion > interesting, so I finally decided to throw out my first newbie/dumb > questions. As for me I'm not an engineer, but one sure fire way to see > if the spar would take the weight would be to build one and test to > destruction. If anyone has a slightly less expensive solution I'd love > to hear and yes, I need to do some homework with regards to wood > strength, any suggested reading besides the archives? I'm sure anyone > that might want to avoid the hassle of medical exams would be too. > (trust me doc, my prostate is A-OK) I would destruction test a pair of spars if I had the capability. I don't have any way of putting 4500 pounds of pressure on anything, much less getting the load distributed right. And the medical sucks. I got my first one the day before my 16th birthday and he STILL had to check that. Insane IMHO. > KR design decision made, still gravity bound on Suzuki. Buell and Kawasaki for me ;) -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:26:51 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> All the metal bits To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <069f01c50e57$33683c60$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original robert glidden wrote: > I could >> easily cut multiple sets of every metal bit in a KR2 in one setup. > > I may be interested in a few things if you can swing them,let me > know.. glidden@ccrtc.com Once I get the plans, digitize the parts in question, lay it out, and figure out what it'll cost I'll say something. Have to do some homework. > Why would you need to make your firewall on a water jet? Is your new > employer going to have a problem with you tieing up a very expensive > machine with KR parts? Don't really need to do it on a waterjet, but I need to teach myself how to use the thing (long story) so might as well make use of the time. Right now we don't have a night shift so the shop goes silent at 5. This is a bad thing, but works out for me. There are also 5 CNC punches sitting around if the waterjet is overkill. -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 21:43:01 -0600 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> Spar questions To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Steve wrote- >I would destruction test a pair of spars if I had the capability. I >don't have any way of putting 4500 pounds of pressure on anything, much >less getting the load distributed right. Why test a pair of spars? One will do. And as far as a test setup and apparatus, check out http://www.flysquirrel.net/wing/spartest.html and see if you can duplicate the high-tech test setup detailed there... PS; I'm an engineer and I find no fault with this type of "first cut" analysis to see if you're even in the ballpark. This type of test can be prepared one weekend and run the next (after cure). You numerical types may take exception, but I don't. If it fails in this type of "backyard" scenario, you've got no business flying it at Reno! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 21:59:11 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> Spar questions To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <06cc01c50e5b$b7b59270$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > Why test a pair of spars? One will do. One stock, one laminated. Gotta have a control :) > And as far as a test setup > and apparatus, check out http://www.flysquirrel.net/wing/spartest.html > and see if you can duplicate the high-tech test setup detailed > there... PS; I'm an engineer and I find no fault with this type of > "first cut" analysis to see if you're even in the ballpark. This type > of test can be prepared one weekend and run the next (after cure). > You numerical types may take exception, but I don't. If it fails in > this type of "backyard" scenario, you've got no business flying it at > Reno! That should work. Not "perfect" since the load is pretty much linear, but close enough. -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:03:33 -0600 From: "Mark Jones" Subject: KR> Re: Bubba To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006101c50e5c$589b9ae0$6401a8c0@wi.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steve, Please excuse my ignorance as I may have missed your introduction to the KR family. Where are you located? What is your age and building experience? I did a search on your N number (N205FT) and there were no results? Just curious. Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI USA E-mail me at flykr2s@wi.rr.com Visit my KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/n886mj/homepage.html ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 22:19:13 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> Re: Bubba To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <074201c50e5e$8450ce10$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Mark Jones wrote: > Steve, > Please excuse my ignorance as I may have missed your introduction to > the KR family. Where are you located? A bit north of Houston, purely by force. > What is your age and building > experience? 30 and no full scale, but more RC than I can remember. Been flying for 18 years and had 2 generations of pilots in the family before me. > I did a search on your N number (N205FT) and there were > no results? Just curious. It's still working it's way through the system. Should be updated any year now. -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:45:26 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: Re: KR> Spar questions To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050209044526.44881.qmail@web51403.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii You can also test a scale model of a spar and obtain good results. Stan Hall discussed the methodology for this in an early Sport Aviation article, two actually. Denny ... Oscar Zuniga wrote: Steve wrote- >I would destruction test a pair of spars if I had the capability. I >don't have any way of putting 4500 pounds of pressure on anything, much >less getting the load distributed right. Why test a pair of spars? One will do. And as far as a test setup and apparatus, check out http://www.flysquirrel.net/wing/spartest.html and see if you can duplicate the high-tech test setup detailed there... PS; I'm an engineer and I find no fault with this type of "first cut" analysis to see if you're even in the ballpark. This type of test can be prepared one weekend and run the next (after cure). You numerical types may take exception, but I don't. If it fails in this type of "backyard" scenario, you've got no business flying it at Reno! Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2005 20:48:43 -0800 (PST) From: Dennis Mingear Subject: RE: KR> WING ISTALLATION AND REMOVAL PROCESS To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050209044843.42184.qmail@web51405.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Thanks Brian, I'll check it out. ... Denny Brian Kraut wrote:They can definitely keep the plane safe and dry. I have a picture at www.engalt.com/kr2.htm. "I can train a monkey to wave an American flag. That does not make the monkey patriotic." Scott Ritter --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 61 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================