From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net To: John Bouyea Subject: KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 63 Date: 2/9/2005 7:51:38 PM Send KRnet mailing list submissions to krnet@mylist.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mylist.net/listinfo/krnet or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to krnet-request@mylist.net You can reach the person managing the list at krnet-owner@mylist.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of KRnet digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: RE : Re: KR> removing the wings - sorry (Matthew Elder) 2. Standard K R 2 Spar WILL NOT (Dan Heath) 3. aircraft have been flown to the published limits (Dan Heath) 4. RE: aircraft have been flown to the published limits (Ron Freiberger) 5. Re: Fw: [friendlyskies] Cirrus Crash (Jim Morehead) 6. RE: To laminate or not ... (Ron Freiberger) 7. Re: Folding Wings (Ray Fuenzalida) 8. question about airfoils ?? (Oscar Zuniga) 9. Re: Thimbles or bushings? (Mark Langford) 10. Re: question about airfoils ?? (Donald Reid) 11. Re: aircraft have been flown to the published limits (Mark Langford) 12. Re: Standard K R 2 Spar WILL NOT (VIRGIL N SALISBURY) 13. Re: Spar questions (Mark Langford) 14. Re: VE resin (Phillip Matheson) 15. RE: VE resin (Brian Kraut) 16. Re: Parachutes (Bubba) 17. Re: recovery parachute system (Bubba) 18. Re: To laminate or not ... (Bubba) 19. Re: To laminate or not ... (Bubba) 20. Re: To laminate or not ... (robert glidden) 21. Re: Call me crazy (Bubba) 22. Re: To laminate or not ... (Mark Langford) 23. Re: Non-zero spar loads was Question on bent spars (Bubba) 24. Re: To laminate or not ... (Mark Langford) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 11:25:12 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Elder Subject: Re: RE : Re: KR> removing the wings - sorry To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050209192513.1988.qmail@web30203.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry List... That was supposed to be private, but I forgot to delete the net... Matt --- Matthew Elder wrote: > Jeff... > > Any chance I can buy a set of plans from you for the varieze... I > would just like to have them for reference. > > Matt > > --- wrote: > > > Yes, I agree, the Varieze WAF made wing removal > very > > easy. I had one and still have the plans. I could > > easily remove and install the wings by myself, but > I > > would not say that it was so easy as to suggest > you > > could do a quick removal to as to trialer back and > > forth between home and airport. > > > > As I recall, you had a couple of 6 inch bolts on > > each wing, with tappered caps, I am trying to > recall > > from memory. > > > > Jeff York' > > Lexington, KY > > kR-2 N839BG flying > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------- Original Message ------- > > >From : greg[mailto:idrawtobuild@ncinternet.net] > > >Sent : 2/9/2005 11:14:28 AM > > >To : krnet@mylist.net > > >Cc : > > >Subject : RE : Re: KR> removing the wings > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Oscar Zuniga" > > >To: > > >Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 6:47 PM > > >Subject: KR> removing the wings > > > > > > > > >> >Check out this link to a British built plane > by > > Ken Atkinson. > > >>>Truly a remarkable wing removable system. > > > > > >I believe that the WAF for the Vari-Eze are one > of > > the easiest systems I've > > >ever come across. Strong and quite dependable. > > > > > >It's easy to look at one. Just find an EZ on you > > airport. And the > > >push/pull for the elirons is also top draw. > > > > > >Greg Martin > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >No virus found in this outgoing message. > > >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > >Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - > > Release Date: 2/7/2005 > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________ > > >Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > >please see other KRnet info at > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at > > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > ===== > ------------------------------------------------- > Matthew Elder > Orangeburg, SC > http://www.infinigral.com/melder > > My Airplane Project: > http://kr1.infinigral.com > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ===== ------------------------------------------------- Matthew Elder Orangeburg, SC http://www.infinigral.com/melder My Airplane Project: http://kr1.infinigral.com ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:38:59 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> Standard K R 2 Spar WILL NOT To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <420A74E3.000001.02640@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Then how do you account for the Dan Diehl long wings? See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering -------Original Message------- ` Standard K R 2 Spar WILL NOT take longer outboard wings and still meet specs, Virg ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:42:24 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Dan Heath" Subject: KR> aircraft have been flown to the published limits To: "krnet@mylist.net" Message-ID: <420A75B0.000003.02640@DANHOMECOMPUTER> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Have you ever seen how much people mass Marty has put in his? I have seen many flown way over the design specs. See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for building has expired. Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering -------Original Message------- but I wonder how many of the aircraft have been flown to the published limits. I'll bet nearly none. ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:57:43 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> aircraft have been flown to the published limits To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <001401c50eea$03c22b40$8f722241@Disorganized> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dan Said; Have you ever seen how much people mass Marty has put in his? I have seen many flown way over the design specs. And I want to ask, did he CARRY them, or how many G's did he pull? Note that if the DESIGN is good for 6g's, it'll LIKELY pull 9+ before failure on a one time test, but MAYBE it'll only pull 6. At a 50% overload, that's only 4g, which might be seen in a wake following someone else at a fly-in. PROBABLY there won't be an event, but again, there might. And, unless you use THAT persons spars, you still don't know how yours'll do till you test them at the limit load. The wood strength is VARIABLE. In not certified wood, there can be a compression fracture in different sticks from the same tree. I have seen compression fractures within certified wood. Ron Freiberger mail to rfreiberger at swfla.rr.com <- substitute an @ sign ;o) -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces@mylist.net] On Behalf Of Dan Heath ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 12:58:16 -0800 From: Jim Morehead Subject: Re: KR> Fw: [friendlyskies] Cirrus Crash To: KRnet Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Netters, The story going around here is that the Sirrus pilot was flying at 16,000 ft and contacted Oakland and reported that his wings were icing and he couldn't maintain alt. Just before Oakland lost him on radar they reported he was doing 400 Kt. They think he pulled his parachute which was never designed to be opened at that speed. It would have been twice the speed that it was designed to be opened. They found the shredded parachute and other aircraft parts scattered over a large area of the ski sloop. The plane was ripped apart in mid air. What a shame to loose a beautiful plane and a fellow pilot. Jim Morehead Cameron Park, CA on 2/9/05 5:51 AM, Randy Smith at cruiseair74372@charter.net wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ken Calman > To: friendlyskies@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 9:02 AM > Subject: [friendlyskies] Cirrus Crash > > > > > Like most news stories, this one leaves unanswered questions. Did the pilot > survive the crash and die of exposure, for instance, or was he killed in the > landing? If he was killed in the landing then the parachute is obviously > not the answer to every problem. > > Ken > > > > > 02/o7/05 > > CA - Downed Pilot Found > > (Placer County, CA) -- Search crews found the body of a pilot > near the Sugar Bowl ski area this morning. Air traffic controllers > got a call from the pilot last night. He said his wings were icing > over and he was going down over a rugged area around Soda > Springs. Early this morning a snow-groomer at Sugar Bowl said > he found parts of an aircraft and a parachute. Placer County > Sheriff's officials said a debris field was found crossing the ski > runs. Greg Murtha with Sugar Bowl says the area where the > plane went down was ill-suited for an successful emergency landing. > The plane disappeared from radar after leaving the Reno airport > heading for the Bay Area. It was a four-seater Sirrus. Authorities > believe the pilot was the only person on board. > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > Yahoo! Groups Links > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/friendlyskies/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > friendlyskies-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 16:07:27 -0500 From: "Ron Freiberger" Subject: RE: KR> To laminate or not ... To: "'KRnet'" Message-ID: <001501c50eeb$5fb5caa0$8f722241@Disorganized> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" - Donald Reid said; There is a lot of science involved in structural design and it is certainly one area in which you do not want to do something stupid. Another "design" method is TLAR, which stands for THAT LOOKS ABOUT RIGHT. But that's not design. On another issue, I've seen many threads about WAFS. If it's a good design, it's all equal strength, like links in a chain. I've never seen any facual design calculations to suggest the WAFs are stronger or weaker than the rest. However, I've heard many opinions. Someday, I'll tell you what opinions are like... Ron Freiberger mail to rfreiberger at swfla.rr.com <- substitute an @ sign ;o) ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 13:53:21 -0800 (PST) From: Ray Fuenzalida Subject: Re: KR> Folding Wings To: KRnet Message-ID: <20050209215321.76646.qmail@web51105.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Actually, I'm glad you brought it up. I had looked at it and then decided to shelve it as I felt that I would feel safer with permanently attached wings. I did speak with Mr. Moore and ask him if I could transfer my "prize" to some other party and he was agreeable with that. They are his proprietary design, so they can't just be given out to the net at large. But they could be given to some other party who might use them, show them off and Mr. Moore could then sell some designs to other interested parties. Larry, if you think this might be something to set up for the Gathering, I will send the protype I have to you for possible display/distribution. Personally, I use the net as a vast resource. Some of the stuff is great and I can't wait to try it, some of it is just interesting but I would never use it. Ray --- The Ainsworths wrote: > Ray et al > What is the status of the folding wing? > A post some time ago read (Archive under 'folding > wing'): > Gary garyains'at' kwic.com > > Ed Janssen wrote: > We have a winner of the "Folding Wings" plan raffle. > The official > "drawer" (my wife) pulled the name of Ray Fuenzalida > from the hat. > Congrats, Ray. Contact RW Moore for your prize. His > address is: > rwmoore@alltel.net > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at > http://www.krnet.org/info.html > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 17:26:29 -0600 From: "Oscar Zuniga" Subject: KR> question about airfoils ?? To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Well, nobody bit on Jerry Morris' question so I'll pop out of my foxhole and give it a shot. He asked: >Please tell me if you know which wing would be the best and fastest. How about one that was specifically designed and optimized for the KR, wind tunnel tested, flight tested, and out there for you to grab and run with? The AS50xx-series airfoil! All you've ever wanted to know about it, and then some, is at http://www.krnet.org/as504x/ Oscar Zuniga San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 19:01:46 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Thimbles or bushings? To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <000d01c50f0c$17fa9710$2802a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Serge wrote: > In Aircraft Spruce's catalogue, I found "AN111 cable bushings". The > comment says "Used in same manner as AN100 cable thimble". > > Could anybody confirm that? I mean, can I use these instead of thimbles > for Nicopressed cable ends? If yes, how come you seldom see that anywhere? I use 'em. They're a viable alternative in my book, and Tony Bengelis', I believe. I some places they work better than thimbles, in others, not. All depends on your purpose. There's a picture of one at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/03052604.jpg , which can be accessed from http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/kcontrol.html . Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see homebuilt airplane at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 20:03:23 -0500 From: Donald Reid Subject: Re: KR> question about airfoils ?? To: KRnet Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.2.20050209195603.01b6abb0@mail.peoplepc.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:13 AM 2/9/2005, you wrote: >I have a question or two about airfoils. >The other question is i know the bonanza, malibu, rv-3,4,6,7,8, venture >egg and many other fast planes use similar airfoils: >(form http://www.aae.uiuc.edu/m-selig/ads/aircraft.html) > >NACA 23016.5 Bonanza >NACA 23015 Malibu >NACA 23013.5 RV >NACA 23017 Questair Venture >NACA 23014 Cessna 550 Citation Bravo > > >Are these planes fast due to the aifoils or the HUGE engine pulling them? I have recently completed a Master's Degree in Engineering. My thesis was on airfoil design and analysis. I have spent several years studying airfoils. It is my opinion that the NACA 23 series is not a good choice for an airplane. Its one good point is a low pitching moment. It has a sharp stall and a drag coefficient that is not particularly good. Don Reid - donreid "at" peoplepc.com Bumpass, Va Visit my web sites at: AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: http://aerofoilengineering.com KR2XL construction: http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/KR2XL.htm Aviation Surplus: http://aerofoilengineering.com/PartsListing/Airparts.htm EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org Ultralights: http://usua250.org VA EAA State Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 19:16:25 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> aircraft have been flown to the published limits To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <003f01c50f0e$24385ec0$2802a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > And I want to ask, did he CARRY them, or how many G's did he pull? I've seen him fly well over 1300 pounds (and heard of 1400 lbs), AND register 6g's on his g-meter, all in the same flight. At the Gatherings he regularly gives rides to anybody that will fit, and regularly pulls close to 6 g's. This is a plane with a lot of hours on it. So many, in fact, that the landing gear brackets loosened up so much that you could see them pushing on the upper wing skins at one Gathering. I'm pretty sure he fixed that, but I think that means there's some margin above 6 g's, but I didn't say it was OK... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see homebuilt airplane at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:28:07 -0500 From: VIRGIL N SALISBURY Subject: Re: KR> Standard K R 2 Spar WILL NOT To: krnet@mylist.net Message-ID: <20050209.213201.2184.5.virgnvs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii They are not K R 1b long, Virg On Wed, 9 Feb 2005 15:38:59 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) "Dan Heath" writes: > Then how do you account for the Dan Diehl long wings? > > See N64KR at http://KR-Builder.org - Then click on the pics > There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for > building > has expired. > Daniel R. Heath - Columbia, SC > See you in Mt. Vernon - 2005 - KR Gathering > -------Original Message------- > ` Standard K R 2 Spar WILL NOT take longer outboard wings > and > still meet specs, Virg > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 20:51:58 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> Spar questions To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <006201c50f1b$7d3e0f80$2802a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" B. Ferguson wrote: > This much I am aware of from the 1B posts Mark L. stirred up a few days > before Christmas. Read as much as possible on the 1B in the archives. > The question would be was this analysis for the original spars in the > old airfoil? It would certainly be for the original spars in the "old" airfoil, since the new one has only been around for about three years, and the admonishion in the 1B plans was written about 33 years ago. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see homebuilt airplane at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 13:59:40 +1100 From: "Phillip Matheson" Subject: Re: KR> VE resin To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <007801c50f1c$90f84da0$b1b0dccb@StationW2k04> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Someone said a few days ago,( can not find it again) To use some Called ALL Clear ???or something in stead of WAX, Can I get more info please. Well, you know it is most likely call something else in Australia. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR Construction web page at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/FlyingKRPhil/VHPKR.html Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 22:13:03 -0500 From: "Brian Kraut" Subject: RE: KR> VE resin To: "KRnet" Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" That was Doug Rupert. Copy attached. I originally asked the question and never really got a direct answer on wheather or not it is needed with VE resin or just with polyester resin. I just laid up some glass with some VE on a piece of cardboard. I put some PVA in a hair spray bottle and sprayed one half of it to experiment. I'll see if both halves dry O.K. by tomorrow and see how they sand and report my results. One thing I did find is that the VE does melt through a thin disposable plastic cup after about 20 minutes so watch what you mix it in. I believe it also disolves some types of foam. The ACS catalog has information on what is compatible with what in the foam section and you should also try it on a scrap first. I bought my VE almost six months ago and it is about as thick as warm honey so I think it is on its way out, but still usable. Doug's email: Gene; One coat brushed directly to inner surface. As long as the VE has not had wax added or Air Dry no sanding needed. I have been watching the PVA thread and wondered why go to all the trouble when resin/material suppliers all carry Air Dry which is especially made to eliminate the tackiness problem and is used for the final lay-up for a smooth slick surface that is tack free. It just mixes with the resin after the hardener has been added according to the manufactures proportions and works like a charm and doesn't clog the sandpaper if later modifications or repairs are required. Doug Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com@mylist.net]On Behalf Of Phillip Matheson Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 10:00 PM To: KRnet Subject: Re: KR> VE resin Someone said a few days ago,( can not find it again) To use some Called ALL Clear ???or something in stead of WAX, Can I get more info please. Well, you know it is most likely call something else in Australia. Phillip Matheson matheson@dodo.com.au Australia VH PKR See our engines and kits at. http://www.vw-engines.com/ http://www.homebuilt-aviation.com/ See my KR Construction web page at http://mywebpage.netscape.com/FlyingKRPhil/VHPKR.html Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:24:36 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> Parachutes To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <015b01c50f20$0cdc4720$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Mark Langford wrote: > > Absolutely. And not only that, but structural failures are > incredibly rare in aircraft in general, KRs in particular. Only in > these rare cases will a parachute help, and as Bob says, there's no > guarantee then. Far more likely is fuel starvation, or an engine > problem of some sort, like carb ice, ignition, valve train, or crank > problems. In these cases, I'd try to put it on the ground if at all > possible. I agree that if you're feeling that unlucky, or live in an > area with particularly unfriendly terrain, go for a ballistic chute. > I think there's probably a good reason why you rarely see a pilot get > into a perfectly good airplane wearing a parachute... I'd still rather get out of a perfectly good airplane wearing a chute than get out of a borked airplane without one ;) (borked= typo that wound up sounding funny and suitable, so it is no longer a typo) The way I see it, $500 for a used chute and another $40 for a repack and inspection is cheap compared to not getting to fly, see my family, make fun of people stuck in Pipers, etc. I'm planning on flying aerobatics (NOT in the KR!!!) in the near future, too, and I'll have to have a chute for that anyway. -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:29:57 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> recovery parachute system To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <016401c50f20$cbca73a0$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original joe wrote: > If one is really concerned, then lose some weight and install > a BRS. From what I have read they have a %100 successful > personal safety rate and in most cases the aircraft can be > reconstituted. > > Has anyone ever read any information that contradicts this > claim. They're only good to 160 knots according to their website. -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:31:29 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> To laminate or not ... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <017301c50f21$02675130$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Brian Kraut wrote: > From the FAA A.C. 43.13 (You have read the FAA bible, havn't you?): I was thinking it was more like the Necronomicron ;) > 1-43. REPLACING SOLID TYPE SPARS WITH LAMINATED TYPE SPARS > Solid spars may be replaced with laminated spars or vice versa, > provided the material is of the same high quality. > > There is also supposedly excellent book on wood aircraft design and > construction that someone mentioned a while back (Don Reid?). Wok, works for me. Laminated it is. I have a strong feeling that it'll be much easier to get good wood in smaller pieces. -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:34:24 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> To laminate or not ... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <017a01c50f21$6ad79d60$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Donald Reid wrote: > > You do NOT want to make spar caps out of plywood. In the FAA > reference, they are talking about laminating using with the wood > fibers oriented along the length of the spar. The grain may be > oriented in a variety of different ways in spar lamination, but the > wood fibers must run the length of the spar. Again, there was never any discussion of using plywood for spar caps. We were talking about laminating wood with the grain in all the layers running spanwise. The only use for chordwise grain in spar caps is to keep them from splitting, and I can't think of any reason for that except in an I-beam spar, and the chances of the shear web wedging into the caps is still nearly comical. (Note: the above opinion was checked out with both a mechanical engineer and an aerospace engineer. Both agreed 100%) -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 22:30:43 -0500 From: "robert glidden" Subject: Re: KR> To laminate or not ... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <028f01c50f20$e6f652c0$0c00000a@computer2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" You do know that if you make them the way the plans call for and don't try to reinvent the wheel,you will be done sooner which means flying sooner.The spars in the plans and the ones for the AS50xx have been proven and they do work rather well.Again just a thought... > > Again, there was never any discussion of using plywood for spar caps. We > were talking about laminating wood with the grain in all the layers running > spanwise. The only use for chordwise grain in spar caps is to keep them from > splitting, and I can't think of any reason for that except in an I-beam > spar, and the chances of the shear web wedging into the caps is still nearly > comical. > > (Note: the above opinion was checked out with both a mechanical engineer and > an aerospace engineer. Both agreed 100%) > -- > Steve > N205FT > mysticz28@swbell.net > He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:45:35 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> Call me crazy To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <017f01c50f22$fabbbf00$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Ron Smith wrote: > I was thinking of making my own main gear out of carbon graphite. > 20-30 layers of 282, 4 inches wide, laid over a form to match the > shape of Groves gear. > > I know that carbon graphite can be brittle. I think it could build it > strong enough but would it be springy enough? Kevlar would probably be a better choice, but figuring out how thick to make it is way, way beyond what I can do. I suppose I'd laminate x layers of kevlar, wrapped completely in 2-3 layers of glass (to give something to sand), and bagged over a form. Or maybe filament wound would be better. Takes forever to wind about a mile of kevlar tow around a couple of pins, but you know the fibers are straight. -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:46:44 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> To laminate or not ... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <002201c50f23$2394bf30$2802a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" "Bubba" wrote: > (Note: the above opinion was checked out with both a mechanical engineer and > an aerospace engineer. Both agreed 100%) Maybe you should know that Don is BOTH a mechanical AND an aerospace engineer, and he's obsessed with structures and airfoils. You'd probably know that if you'd kick back and listen more... Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see homebuilt airplane at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:55:00 -0600 From: "Bubba" Subject: Re: KR> Non-zero spar loads was Question on bent spars To: "Wesley Scott" , "KRnet" Message-ID: <018e01c50f24$4bbddae0$0200a8c0@Katana> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Wesley Scott wrote: > The vertical shear spar loads will not drop to zero inside the > fuselage, unless the seats are mounted to the longerons instead of to > the spar as they normally are. The horizontal shear loads caused by > the bending moments remain constant (not zero) inside the fuselage if > there is no vertical load applied to the spar inside the fuselage. Guess I didn't mention I'm mounting the seat supports to the floor and sides of the fuselage ;) Half the cockpit (seat, armrests, headrest) is this foam thing. I'll put some pics somewhere when the plans show up and I've had time to build more than a mockup. I was reminded of something useful today. Waterjets can cut any solid, including carbon, G2 and FR4 fiberglass, and plyfoam :) This will greatly simplify my life. I can just lay up a full sheet of foam/carbon, build a CAD file, and in 10 minutes have a jigsaw puzzle-like pile of stuff that turns into a seat assembly. Ain't technology great? :) -- Steve N205FT mysticz28@swbell.net He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in. ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2005 21:51:00 -0600 From: "Mark Langford" Subject: Re: KR> To laminate or not ... To: "KRnet" Message-ID: <004001c50f23$bc754080$2802a8c0@2600xp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Bubba wrote: > Again, there was never any discussion of using plywood for spar caps. Maybe not from you, but I seem to remember something like: "Don't forget, most laminates (such as plywood) are stronger as compared to a solid peice of wood the same thickness because of the different grain orientations." in the discussion of spar caps, and then: "How about making up wing spar caps out of several laminations of ply?" That's what prompted the comment. Mark Langford, Huntsville, Alabama see homebuilt airplane at http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford email to N56ML "at" hiwaay.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ See KRnet list details at http://www.krnet.org/instructions.html End of KRnet Digest, Vol 347, Issue 63 ************************************** ================================== ABC Amber Outlook Converter v4.20 Trial version ==================================